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上唔上數碼背好?

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 樓主| 發表於 2013-8-17 23:16:50 | 顯示全部樓層
ghost03032008 發表於 2013-8-17 23:14
入之前我都驚後悔,入完之後後悔入得遲....

今時今日五皮嘢買部18MP重要係只影都黑白嘅機,真係要有啲吉士。
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發表於 2013-8-17 23:25:44 | 顯示全部樓層
我好naive,等紧好似135film 咁嘅 digital parts, 可以用係唔同嘅135 机。
Think Positive, Make Negative
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發表於 2013-8-17 23:32:14 | 顯示全部樓層
有咗$$,我會有好多吉士
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發表於 2013-8-18 00:16:00 來自手機 | 顯示全部樓層
Let me share some thoughts and experience on DB...

1) yes they are heavy
2) one have to be aware of the crop factor. There are cheaper starter ones but they will usually be the cropped sensors. Which means you can not make use of the whole lens. Also very difficult for wide angle landscape. Ends up very expensive as well.
3) ISo problem. Base ISo starts from around 50. Some starts from 25 I think. Maximum usable high ISo is around 200.
4) start up is not immediate. Newer models will be better but you basically need to turn on camera and the DB seperately. Takes even more time that way.
5) there are a few adaptors on the market. Most common ones are Hasselblad H, Hasselblad V, mamiya mount, contax 645. There are other adaptor as well like Fuji 680 etc...
6) the 2 main brands making digital backs is Creo leaf and phaseone. There are other brands such as Kodak as well . But that 2 is your main and most common.
7) resolution... You probabaly don't want to waste money and get a DB that has less resolution than a DSLR..

I had a DB and changed to S2.

Reasons.
1) stability- all in one and don't have to worry as much.
2) lens - not all the medium format are designed for digital age. Similar problem as the M system. The Leica S lens are designed for the S system.
3) weight and size - yes it's still big but its a bit like a top range DSLR with a 35/1.4.
4) weather seal!!!
5) acceptable high ISo. Basically I felt that the full range is usuable.

I was struggling between the s system and alpa but at the end. I realize I just wanna bring one camera so I picked the S.

Now a days with IQ260/280. They are the next generation digital back and they offer much higher resolution and also improvements in many areas.

Above are all personal preference with personal experience.
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發表於 2013-8-18 08:57:37 | 顯示全部樓層
玩DB 當然heavy ,睇你1st priority 係甚麼. Iceland 兄弟幫就係敢.
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發表於 2013-8-18 11:50:51 | 顯示全部樓層
本帖最後由 andytwk 於 2013-8-18 11:56 編輯

DB is heavy but pictures are killing.. what a trade off and see how serious you want that picture to be..  I am now using DB and 4x5 for serious photography while casual shots with Leica, after giving up the Nikon DSLR from my system list.  MF has its real value with 135 can never beat.

DB in Nam Seng Wei

45 Kam Tim Lotus this year

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 樓主| 發表於 2013-8-18 13:14:46 | 顯示全部樓層
andytwk 發表於 2013-8-18 11:50
DB is heavy but pictures are killing.. what a trade off and see how serious you want that picture to ...

Andy, you photos are very good!
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 樓主| 發表於 2013-8-18 13:28:12 | 顯示全部樓層
Sawlo2000 發表於 2013-8-18 00:16
Let me share some thoughts and experience on DB...

1) yes they are heavy

actually hasselblad H does not have most of the problem you mentioned, such as ISO, separate bootup.

but it is heavy!

Sawlo2000 hing, can S or S2 do one-click mirror lock up during shooting?
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發表於 2013-8-18 13:29:00 | 顯示全部樓層
Jason 發表於 2013-8-18 13:14
Andy, you photos are very good!

Thanks Jason.
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發表於 2013-8-18 16:58:13 | 顯示全部樓層
本帖最後由 kevench 於 2013-8-18 17:08 編輯
Sawlo2000 發表於 2013-8-18 00:16
Let me share some thoughts and experience on DB...

1) yes they are heavy

Support S!

After seeing the IQ 40MP and above DB, I am really stunned by the picture quality, and tbh it is the best picture you can get as a user!

I have considered DB with 1) Techno 2)Alpa or 3)Mamiya DF and end up choosing S system which I love it a lot.

The following are a few personal issues I didn't pick the above:
1) Techno: The focusing ground glass, unlike 4x5, is merely 645 size which a loupe pretty much covers it, that make it hard for me to focus. Beside I am still deep into 4x5, having pretty much the same focusing system for 4x5 and DB troubles me, maybe one day when I retire 4x5 I will go this route.
2) Alpa: Well-known well made precision camera, but the focusing system is not that precise to me, having to use laser meter to measure distance and use hyper focusing troubles me, especially in natural scene where the distance is over 20m, it's ok for wide angle but I see tele-lens would be an issue. Of course there is an app for calculating the precious movement needed but I have yet to see my friends dig it.
3) Mamiya DF: SLR system well S is smaller and lighter, enough said.

To me S is:
1) Versatile, can be serious shooting put it on tripod. And outcome picture quality does not loose much to DB, if not same. It can also be casual, handheld, which can be hardly performed using DB, doable, but hey lighter smaller means easier when handheld.
2) Lighter and smaller, when handheld, than DB, or even 645D, H system. These systems all have their own advantage but lighter and smaller while maintaining on par PQ is what attracted me. I recently found out its about same weight and size as Canon 1DX.
3) Easy to use, the focusing is reasonable fast and spot on which saves me time on focusing than using DB system.
4) Great on picture, if you didn't know, we tested S lens vs H and 645D lens, S lens out win the others in every range.
5) Durable, both the system and the battery, a fully charged battery lasted me 2 days on average in Iceland, for one scene I put my new S just one ballhead above on the sand, a wave came covering up the camera and filters etc. The filters need to be dried while the ballhead became rusted (found out after my return), the camera (mounted with S24 lens) is like nothing happened. I would not consider doing it if I am using other DB or MF digital system.
5) Fun, I mean it can mount almost any lens (that can cover it), be it Hassel V or HH, Contax 645, Mamiya etc due to it's shortest flange distance in MF digital camera.
6) Cheap, I can mount cheap cheap Mamiya lens on it, I have to confess I am cheap and I do own a couple old Mamiya lenses cost about 1K each. LOL But they do give good pictures on the S.

With the above said, I think choosing a camera system is very personal, my friends that use DB on Techno and Alpa take awesome pictures and they love it very much. These camera systems are great! But my personal choice based on the above makes me stick with S.

To answer Jason ching question, IMO, lighter than H means lesser chance for blurred picture when handheld, for range shorter than 70 I have no issue using 1/30s, for longer range I use the inverted timing and give it a little extra speed for it's high resolution, eg 180, I would use 1/250s, being able to use ISO as high as 1600 on the new S, and 1250 on the S2P, I had no blurring issue unless lighting is very critical.

For the mirror lockup, the S can be setup in a way it takes every shot with mirror pre-lock-up, that it locks up mirror first and another press release the shutter and the mirror (or just press and hold the shutter button for pre-lock-up and then release after a very shor delay to minimize mirror lock-up vibration), this can be set-up by 3 button presses.

Enough said just some shots I like:
S24 Lens (tripod):


Cheap Mamiya 120 Macro Lens F5.6 (handheld):


Cheap Mamiya 120 Macro Lens F11 1:1 Macro shot without cropping (handheld):
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發表於 2013-8-18 22:36:17 | 顯示全部樓層
kevench 發表於 2013-8-18 16:58
Support S!

After seeing the IQ 40MP and above DB, I am really stunned by the picture quality, a ...

very good sharing Keven..
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發表於 2013-8-18 23:18:45 | 顯示全部樓層
thank you all the experts again for sharing your valuable insights, skills, experiences and experience. sticking to 135 is better for a novice user like me and i shall not think about having another system that needs much care and attention when it comes to photo shooting.

i thought i could hand-hold with ease like using the 135, but that is not the case with the digital back, even with auto-focusing. it's not about whether or not it has auto-focusing. minor hand-shaking can blow a whole photo.

again, thank you.
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發表於 2013-8-18 23:54:14 | 顯示全部樓層
樓上三張好毒
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發表於 2013-8-19 02:11:44 | 顯示全部樓層
Patrick_c 發表於 2013-8-17 09:59
我記得kfc早6個月前有c-hing 放 mamiya 645af + 2 mamiya lenses + 初偕數貝 = 四萬幾   我末玩過數貝   個 ...

Me too C Hing.....I was late too Thought and thought....ooh...gone.
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發表於 2013-8-19 02:47:07 | 顯示全部樓層
DB 有 DB 的樂趣 和攝影技巧上的挑戰 ...DB 影相事前事後都要做好一定的準備..如果玩得好其趣無窮...反之 Leica M ..S 及單反的快速拍攝及重量係DB有所不及...睇自己需要玩自己的嘢方為正著...如果DB想影影老婆仔女確實有D難度
[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/77088354@N03/9429808915/] icfn11 by alphard3188, on Flickr[/url]
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發表於 2013-8-19 02:49:21 | 顯示全部樓層
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發表於 2013-8-19 03:06:35 | 顯示全部樓層
DB Handheld Mamiya 645 + 45mm AF lens @ ISO50
[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/77088354@N03/9538362897/] dbhand1 by alphard3188, on Flickr[/url]
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發表於 2013-8-19 03:08:23 | 顯示全部樓層
本帖最後由 alphard 於 2013-8-19 10:05 編輯

DB Handheld Mamiya 645 + Hassy 100 手動對焦 @ ISO 50
[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/77088354@N03/9541155212/] dbhand2 by alphard3188, on Flickr[/url]
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發表於 2013-8-19 03:15:11 | 顯示全部樓層
DB + Ebony 4X5 + 一支 cheap cheap 的鏡(Ebay 買返來連運費HK$1800) Rodenstock 100/5.6 APO (can cover only 6X9)
[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/77088354@N03/9541213826/] eb1 by alphard3188, on Flickr[/url]
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發表於 2013-8-19 03:30:48 | 顯示全部樓層
不過忠告大家...如果入DB 就要有心理準備...唔好當 Leica M 或單反咁玩法..DB 背後的 one head smoke 是你想像唔到的
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